A conversation with a Non-Beliver

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The below copied and pasted conversation really took place on a discussion board on Face Book called ,MY GOD WILL NEVER GET TIRED OF LOVING ME DESPITE MY SINS! Take the time to read it and tell me what you think I want to hear from you all Les
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  The below copied and pasted conversation really took place on a discussion board onFace Book called ,MY GOD WILL NEVER GET TIRED OF LOVING ME DESPITEMY SINS! Take the time to read it and tell me what you think I want to hear from you allLesPepe Victor LISTEN LES PLS, MANY A TIME I HAVE RESPECTED ANDADMITTED OTHER PEOPLE'S BELIEFS, BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THEBELIEVER'S IDIOLOGY OF CREED, LIKE YOU, THINKS THAT BY HAVINGREAD A BOOK CALLED THE HOLY BIBLE IS ENOUGH TO SAY THAT THATIS THE WHOLE TRUTH. THERE'S NOTHING ELSE BEYOND THAT. I HAVEN'TREAD ONCE A BELIEVER SAY OKAY I RESPECT YOUR BELIEFS ON THECONTRARY THEY START BY STRESSING CHAPTERS OF THE BIBLE TO TRYTO CONVINCE THEM. ONCE UPON A TIME, MANY YEARS AGO A MAN WASBORN AND THEY CALLED HIM JESUS. HE WAS A PROPHET IN HIS LAND, AVERY INTELIGENT PERSON AMONGST THE LESS INTELIGENT. HE GREW UPIN POVERTY AND WANTED TO ABOLISH THE RICH. HE MANAGED TOGATHER A LOT OF FOLLOWERS, LIKE ANY OTHER ORGANISATION DOES NOWADAYS. THAT WAS HIS MISTAKE. THE PRIESTS AND RICH PEOPLE OFTHOSE TIME THOUGHT THAT THEY WERE GOING TO LOOSE EVERYTHINGAND THAT HE, JESUS, WAS GOING TO GET THE POWER OVER THEM, THEYDECIDED TO GET RID OF HIM. THAT IS HAPPENING IN THIS TIME AND AGE,MY FRIEND LES. HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED BECAUSE THE'VETRIED TO BE MORE THAN HE SHOULD OR DEFENDING THE RIGHTS OFPEOPLE.THERE'S NO MORE TO IT, THE BIBLE HAS BEEN CREATED TOBENEFIT SOME AND NOT OTHERS. IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF BELIEVE IT'S AQUESTION OF DETERRANT FOR THE LOWEST CLASS SO THAT THEY DON'TREVEAL THEMSELVES, AND OF COURSE TO KEEP THE CHURCH ANDPARISHES AND PRIESTS ALIVE AND KICKING. THE BIBLE HAS BEENALTERED IN ORDER TO HAVE MORE UNDERSTANDING OF IT, TRUE, YOUKNOW WHY BECAUSE THEY WERE SEEING THAT MANY PEOPLE WEREGETTING TO UNDERSTAND THE LIESTHAT WAS WRITTEN THERE AND THEY HAD NO OTHER ALTERNATIVETHAT TO BRING IT IN LINE WITH MODERN LIFE TO SUIT THEM. NOW WHEN YOU READ THIS, YOU MIGHT TURN ROUND AND SAY HOWIGNORANT I AM OR HOW SILLY INTERPRETATION OF THE BIBLE I HAVEDONE OR HOW I HAVE CLASSED THE LIFE OF JESUS. FOR ME JESUS WASANOTHER MAN AND NOTHING OF GOD BECOMING MAN. I'LL TELL YOUSOMETHING, IF AS BELIEVERS SAY THAT JESUS WILL COME AGAIN, DOYOU THINK HE WILL HAVE THE STAMINA OF DOING SO AFTER WHAT MANDID TO HIM? NO WAY THAT MUST BE TAKEN FROM THE HEAD HE WILL NEVER COMEAGAIN AS HE DIED AND THAT'S IT. RESURRECTION, THAT IS A BIG LIE ASBIG AS THIS WORLD. GENESIS A FARCE, APOCALIPSE CAN BE WITH ALL  THE THINGS THAT'S HAPPENING IN THE WORLD. SO MY FRIEND LES, NOWYOU KNOW MY BELIEFS AND MY IDEOLOGY OF RELIGION AND I WILL NEVER INSULT OR PREACH TO ANYBODY TO BELIEVE MY IDEOLOGY OR MY BELIEFS. REGARDS TO YOU. Les Auger Pepe, I wish I had the time to truly address your repliy but sadly I amworking. I do respect your belief however that said you are an intelligent man and it issad that you would choose to listen to the falsehood that others have promoted to promotethemselves and their ideas please Pepe come to the table with an open mind and try it before you decide to reject it or buy it, the Bible is about a relationship with a Spiritnot about some economic social tripe that Stalin and others promoted.Will try to answer your questions when I have more timePepe Victor LES I HAVE ENDED MY COMMENTS BY SAYING THAT THATWAS MY BELIEF. BUT WHO ESTABLISHES FALSEHOOD, WHO SAYS WHATIT'S TRUE OR WHAT IT AIN'T, THE BIBLE? LES WHY DO YOU THINK I HAVE NOT GOT AN OPEN MIND? IT'S MY RIGHT TO BELIEVE OR NOT. FOR ME THEBIBLE IS ANOTHER BOOK LIKE A WESTERN NOVEL. I DON'T BELIEVE INSPIRITS EITHER. WHEN SOMEONE DIES IS BECAUSE HIS HEART HASSTOPPED, END OF STORY. AND ANOTHER SAYING THAT FROM ASHES WECOME AND TO ASHES WE'LL BE RETURN. WHO SAYS THAT FROM ASHESWE COME? WE DON'T COME FROM ASHES, WE COME AS A RESULT OF AMALE AND FEMALE HAVING INTERCOURSE, THAT'S IT NOTHING ELSE.WHY MUST THE BIBLE BE ABOUT A RELATIONSHIP WITH THE SPIRIT?WHAT SPIRIT? WHY WAS THE WORD GHOST CHANGED TO SPIRIT? WHYTHE PRAYER THE OUR FATHER WAS ALTERED? WHO GAVE PERMISSIONTO ALTER THAT PRAYER? ACCORDING TO BELIEVERS, THE OUR FATHER  WAS SAID FOR THE FIRST BY JESUS HIMSELF, AND TODAY THOSE WORDSHAVE BEEN ALTERED, WHY AND BY WHOM? WHO GAVE PERMISSION FOR THAT? YOU SEE I HAVEN'T MENTIONED ANYBODY LIKE STALIN. LES MYFRIEND, I HAVE NOT CHOSEN TO LISTEN TO THE FALSEHOODS THATOTHERS HAVE PROMOTED, WHAT I HAVE CHOSEN IS TO PROMOTE MYSELFTO THE EVERYDAY LIFE THAT SURROUND US AND SEEING ALL THECALAMITY WE HAVE EVERYWHERE WITHOUT THE ALMIGHTY DOING NOTHING TO STOP IT. FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE WHERE IS THE ALMIGHTY WHEN A CHILD IS BORN AND DIE BEFORE HE EVEN SEES THE DAYLIGHTWITHOUT DOING ANYTHING TO STOP THAT AND NOT CONSIDERINGWEATHER THAT CHILD COULD HAVE BEEN A REALLY GOOD FAITHFULAND TRUE FOLLOWER OF HIM. WHY DOES HE ALLOW THE INSTABILITYTHE WORLD IS FACING? LES I COULD GO ON FOR EVER AND EVER. ANDTHE THING ISTHAT YOU YOURSELF IS SEEING IT THE SAME AS I AM SEEING IT. THIS ISWHAT GETS ME AND STILL YOU HAVE PEOPLE BELIEVING. BELIEVING INWHAT? IN THE ALLOWANCES THAT'S BEEN ALLOWED FROM   ABOVE Les Auger Pepe, I appreciate your honest debate, the questions you ask are wonderfuland display your intelligence and the amount of thought that you have given thesequestions. I apologize for accusing you of having a closed mind, the very fact that you arehere, on a religious board, asking these kinds of questions shows that you are willing tolisten to an opposing view, I was in a hurry to respond to you so yes I did not give asgood answers as you have questions.I will start with your first statement about us believers thinking that reading the HolyBible is enough to declare truth, it is not, truth is subjective and experiential, In your experience Hot sauce may burn and blister your mouth but for me it is just another seasoning, your truth in this case is different than mine. Yes many Christens do getexuberant and become zealots blindly following a doctrine, it is but a child's faith thatcauses this to occur it can be compared to finding a winning lottery ticket for millionsof dollars, the winner wants everyone to share in his finding, some believers never grow beyond this. The truths of the Bible are experiential.If you do not believe that man is more than a colossal accident of matter then all thewords that I have to say are falling on deaf ears, and the Bible is to you nothing morethan a good door stop. If that is so then I must stop here. However I will not stop because you are on a religious discussion board, which means that somewhere in you youdo not accept that you are a great accident, made of nothing more than spinning atomsand all that your life is, is meaningless. If your life is meaningless and there is nothingmore beyond here than please do us all a favor and return to the dust. Your life ismeaningful though, you are serving mankind by designing automobiles, a means of transportation that was conceived in the mind of a man, who enlisted many other men tocreate a wonderful means of transportation or is it, as some believe a powerful weapon of destruction, it is for you to decided.Your humanizing of Jesus (and that isn't what his name was but the Greeks didn't knowhow to make the Jewish name that today would be translated Joshua into a Greek sound)is not offensive. Jesus was a man, he was born an infant, raised as a boy, taught to be acarpenter by his step-father, became a Jewish Rabi, and taught a doctrine of personalresponsibility, which went against the popular beliefs of his day. I do not find your assessment of his actions offensive either, as indeed the Jewish leaders were jealous of this mans simple doctrine and feared that they would loose their power-base that wasrooted in their false doctrine. I think that we believers have done God a great disservicein forgetting the humanity of Jesus.As to the bible's creation, it began with Moses, he wrote the first five books of theBible, was it to benefit some and deny basic human rights to others? I think not, studythe Law and you will find as I did that the law of Moses is a set of rules that seek tofind equality and justice for all. For example are you aware that the Law required afarmer to leave some of his crop unharvested so those who could not make a living couldharvest food for themselves? Read about the year of Jubilee, it is amazing, tort law wasfirst developed in the Mosaic law and was profoundly fair. Most of the rest of the oldtestament dealt with the history of the Jewish nation and their Love/Hate relationship  with their God and were written by many different authors but there is a common threadthat binds all of it together, a thread I will not tell you about, it is something thatyou must find for yourself or it will mean nothing to you.As far as your statementconcerning Jesus never retuning because of what man did to him, that is human thinkingand shows a misunderstanding of the nature of God but it also demonstrates thatsomewhere in your belief it is possible that He did continue to exist after His humanexperience. Concerning His resurrection, there were over five hundred witnesses to this,over five hundred people saw him after he was declared dead and before his accession.How many witnesses does it take for you to believe?Concerning the calamity around us, I personally find it amazing that people who declareGod a figment of imagination use this as proof that God does not exist. In fact itactually proves that God does exist and just how misunderstood He is. He created us withfree will, we choose to rebel against him, just as a teenager rebels against his/her  parents, we raised them to be good upstanding citizens caring about others feelings others property and respecting their elders and law, yet many choose to not follow how theywere raised. This is the same with God, He did not create us to be robots going around praising His name and doing good works because He said so. He has given us free will todo or believe as we will, in truth if all of the people choose to follow Gods way and planthis world would be an utopia, strife , war and starving masses would end, but humanityhas chosen to deny Gods existence or even worse has done things in Gods name that arenot within His will, the seven deadly sins are in fact our own undoing and are not in Godswill, but you would have to know God to know that, and you would have to read theBible to find that out.Bad things happen to good people and there are hundreds maybe even thousands of reasons why but they are not for us to figure out. There are some reasons given in thescriptures but that is between the individuals involved and God to figure outWhen we ask the kinds of questions that you asked in your last paragraph, we we areassuming that our judgment is better than God's and therefore we have the right to JudgeGod by our slandered, how egocentric can we be!Regarding changes in the scripture, I repeat what I said earlier, those changes are madeto bring the word to the understanding of modern man, the scholars spend years studying, praying and seeking guidance before a single word is changed. You can if you wish purchase a transliteration, I have one, good luck understanding it, their are many nuancesof the ancient languages that make it impossible for modern man to make heads or tails of it.Yes Christen church leaders have made a mess of things and that is why I am gratefulthat I live in a time where I can read the scriptures for myself and decide for my self.I could go on for hours more at this keyboard and doubt that I could ever convince you, Ido hope I have answered some of your questions and not insulted you. As I have said before the truths of the bible are experiential, you must have an experience with the trueand living God to believe in Him, this can only come through honest seeking, if you areout to prove God does not exist that will become your truth but if you open the door tothe possibility that He does He will guide you.Millions and Millions of people have had that experience, it is an experience far better than any drug, it will give you a peace of mind and heart that you can experience no other 
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